But on balance mgrs at MS get things right a lot more often than they get them wrong or we wouldnt be one of the most highly capitalized companies in the history of biz. Wish I this post and comments laminated about 10 years ago after I wasn't going to get rich off stock.My comment to add is to those who are put into situations of continual reorgs and want to achieve the 'Senior'. There is no better investment at Microsoft for tuning your career. If you job simply doesn't scale to that next level - and many don't / can't - then you need to build rapport with your manager to have a focused career discussion about what roles are around to get you there and how you could land in one.2. This is certainly the course that I took. Leverage your professional network, and get hired. An accomplished and proven Director / Tech & Business Principal / Programme Manager / Business Partner / Service Delivery Manager with a wide-ranging skillset, experienced in leading teams to success. Finally, I think my experience proves that people who may be on theslow track to advancement can turn things around with the right commitment and management. In this article, we have explained the Job levels at Microsoft which starts at SDE and goes up to Technical Fellow. Even if you don't leave, make no mistake, I'll be building a backfill slate for your role just in case. Why cannot we have our address title reflect our level as everybody else in the company? Yes, "soft skills" count.I'm pleased that someone said it.There are a collection of skills that are difficult to quantify that are absolute necessities to succeeding at higher levels. Our entire unit was let go but we were moved to different groups in the org. Your analysis is very true, specially the part about owning the room and be regarded as the domain expert. I've been a 62 for too long by Microsoft standards. This way you have a more clear understanding of the seniority of that particular position and if you search for a group manager you will see the seniority distribution. Senior Director, Industry Advisor Life Sciences Salesforce Aug. 2020-Heute2 Jahre 8 Monate Zrich, Switzerland Building Go To Market Strategies; growing and driving industry thought leadership. Ritu Sethi - Director- Technology I Outsourcing & Offshoring - ABC SQL is one of the groups that has consistently delivered quality and growth. MS is a carrot and stick culture with some heavy emphasis on stick. kc. After that I got 3 levels in 3 years and now at level 64. Will a team that needs exactly the skills and interests that you have pass on you because of some HR guideline? After I became a lead & manager, I was given a team in turmoil after a re-org and straightened that out. Every spec coming to this team had my feedback in it. It may be that the policy is to do transparent leveling but it's no one's job to go through and make sure they're up to date. In general, these designations are based on rank, with the highest director position being the executive director or director of operations. Youre hanging onto the bar swing back and forth feeling pretty secure. It's really not that complicated. By doing this they are short circuiting the feedback loop and thereby preventing themselves from improving. Is there a way one can dream of getting promoted in this noxious environment which is the oabg? What Is A Senior Director - Zippia When it comes to where you actually rank and what you get paid that part is all that matters. L68 would not be referred to as Director. I also don't know if this is the first step towards a lay-off, but for now, it seems we'll have jobs for a few more months.Ugh, not good, not good at all>I am a partner. Thats a very helpful answer. Your Team: you have to be able to understand why the L63s and L64s are where they are. All the money making groups cut 10% of the work force. I know devs who got there without doing anything substantial but their manager was nice and there was no competition.In short, Level 63 to me is not important and I really dont respect 63s unless they I've interacted with them.Level 65+ is another story and are devs who have the stuff almost always.- Someone at Level 62. Experienced Operations & Project Manager with a demonstrated history of working in the financial services industry. . This past year I had what I thought was an outstanding year, was given a 20%, but not promoted to L63. I am currently going to school which should help the moves to a better position. Susan O'Neill - Commercial Director, Australia - Microsoft | LinkedIn If so, then you're going to have a hard time finding senior IC spots anywhere. No managers seems to want to talk to the previous managers for promo stuff and each wants at least 12 mos of time to think to observer. You should NOT be looking to get more money to stay in a job you don't like. Given that quite a few Microsofties are going to find themselves locked into their current group for a while, the ability to succeed by swinging on the vines to a new group is going to be rare. agree with positive suggestions here. I think that a compentent dev not a superstar, who follows your advice should make it to 63. Second, the perspective of a different team helps you generalize about best practices and what works and doesn't work. Absolutely. No, never: now, going back to that <> question above: if your boss is answering "No, never" then this is a red-alert moment for you. I've been at 59 for going on four years now, and was told by my manager over 2 years ago that I was totally ready and qualified for promotion to L60, but that "there wasn't enough budget" (yeah right), and this was in *Office* (a group which is clearly strapped for cash, I guess). At the end of the day its about $$ and in reality levels mean nothing if your getting paid crap. The Making of an Expert: in the great Harvard Biz Review article of this title the author debunks the myth that experts are born, rather than made. Of course, it goes without saying that if you dont have any substance you will likely hurt yourself badly and get ignored with vengeance next time. Senior Director, Head of Data Sciences VMware Aug 2014 - Jul 20217 years Bengaluru Area, India Global Leader and Head of Data Sciences Lead Data scientist teams across Bangalore, Bulgaria, Palo. That's the wall you need to talk about, but the discussion would be very different than the L63 bump.And after 5+ years at L64, I finally just left. I started at 59 and just got promoted to 63 a couple months ago. Sort of like grading on a curve in school. Also, never ascribe to malfeasance what may simply be due to incompetence. When you see a bozo who is L65 it is highly likely that he had joined MS recently at L64-L65 directly.Here's biggest difference in expectations between levels: The L62 guys are supposed to be able to lead their feature and perhaps influence couple of related features by spreading their best practices. The L64 guys should be able to influence their skip level orgs plus one or two groups outside of the skip org. If so I wish them good luck - as oppose to the US, these regions have laborlaws which makes it very hard for a company with Microsofts margin to lay people off. Chris Capossela. L65 here, worked up from L59 (actually, 10 in the old system).The key is always to keep your eye on the goal. These two lines really serve to summarize the incoherent blithering that was jcr's post.Whoa, really? For some teams - especially those like Office with few departures release-to-release resulting in level compression - that's a rough bunch. Great topic. Don't make promises to follow up on things and then let them drop. I'm interested in reading your perspective and what advice you'd give to someone new to the company looking at a career path similar to your own. If it does, are you demonstrating success at that next level already and do people know about it? Normally this is acceptable but right now i smell lawsuit. Repeat. Facebook, Go to company page The reason why they were 65's are:1. It doesnt matter if the system is fair or not. A Principal-level employee at Microsoft is someone who drives strategic efforts in their area of expertise. The news is in. No matter how good you are, you will peak at some point and Microsoft will get rid of you. Chong Eu Ong - Senior Information Technology Manager - LinkedIn You almost always have to earn it. Difference between getting promoted to L65 and joining as new FTE at L65 is HUGE. Because, IMO, that is the jist of jcr's post. We need to grow out of this bad legacy syndrome that we still have. Don't do this point blank and for no apparent reason, but your manager has to be aware that at all times you're working towards your next promo, be aware of your results, be aware of the things you need to do to get there, and make YOU and HIS MANAGER aware of those things. Microsoft Senior Director Software Engineering Manager Compensation I'm a level 64 lead in Windows and this post is spot on. For example, in order to be promoted to level 62, you, as a level 61, must already perform at a level 62 level for a long time. (Summarized: Don't ever let your boss be frightened that you'll make him/her look bad. The funding for our project stopped and our vendor team of 28 people have been asked to leave immediately. )Those are only 3 of many 'soft skills' that will hold most people, even brilliant people, back.Has every level X mastered these skills? senior director - $446k . Executive Vice President and Chief Human Resources Officer. I haven't seen one single person getting hired below L63 in my group during last year. Ability to solve problems independently is bad because if you don;t ask for help it reduces your visibility. B.Sc in Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, Electronics, M.Sc in Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, Electronics, PhD in Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, Electronics, Designing and implementing Software and Hardware Systems, Benchmarking and validating Software and Hardware Systems, Developing innovative solutions and publish papers and patents, Managing teams and keep track of progress, Predicting market trends, identifying market risks, Identifying future opportunities, preparing company roadmap. Directors are usually senior principals (level 66, 67) or at Partner level. Last August (different group), I received a dreaded "Limited II", in spite of my manager telling me that he didn't actually think I was in the "bottom 10" at Microsoft, but that the devil made him do it (so to speak) and that it was a "no-brainer" for him. I moved around 3 teams before I found one where I really enjoyed the technology and the people, and here I've flourished.So forget all the whining about politics and crap. Vendors are also having it bad. He is a very, very smart guy.For many people, what made them successful as a level 62 IC will kill them as a level 62 manager. Mine is inside sales Azure. At Level 66, Microsoft employees reported that nearly 40% of compensation was in the form of cash and stock bonuses. Got two promotions - still level 60If you really got promoted twice then you would have advanced 2 levels.Either you didn't actually get promoted, or someone told you lies. My first year I thought for sure I would sit at L61 for another year, but to my surprise I was promoted to L62 without even a full FY under my belt. Is it easier to level up in smaller groups (v1 product)? My work affected hundreds of developers in our org. PROFESSIONAL SKILLS & HIGHLIGHTS OF QUALIFICATIONS Over 20+ years of experience working in large-scale real-time corporate environments Able to communicate concepts and details to clients, development team and testing team Excellent organization and communication skills, both written and verbal: clear and concise Knowledge of computer development software across multiple platforms . Your commitments should already provide you with milestones to set as your goals. For example, see http://www.intropsych.com/ch07_cognition/learning_curve.html. I used to work in the OneCare team. I asked them direct questions about what I needed to do to get the next promotion. In spite of it, I've been promoted 8 times in 12 years. I think it's safe to say that I "own" the group of people under L63 in my group, but I usually take that as an opportunity for mentorship as opposed to an opportunity to poach someone else's cool project. I breezed to L63 and shortly after to L64 within a year. At a basic level, in a company the size of Microsoft, the higher you go, the less you contribute individually and the more you contribute by your impact on an organization - hiring the right people, setting clear and correct goals, driving alignment and execution. The details in front of you are just details. Years ago we had a dev on my team who was very high IQ and very driven, but was driving his lead nuts. If you push too hard or threaten to leave, you will be written off immediately. I've been hearing some stealth layoffs around the SQL and BOSG groups, around 70+ people were given 6(?) Like many technology companies, Microsoft uses levels to indicate seniority for employees, including engineers. You will make your management look good and the levels will come. Add your salary anonymously in less than 60 seconds and continue exploring all the data. Find out if you have a positive trajectory in the stack ranking. Some were also not very sexy/fun problem but they were all critical to ship. Owning big features, knowledge about code base, ability to help your peers - irrelevant. Senior Product and Strategy Director, AI/ML - LinkedIn Could somebody please confirm or deny this. He himself is principal for quite sometime. Just pick one Job id, prepare for it and then go for internal. you need to hit the pause button for one big time-out regarding where you are, where you're going, and what needs to change. This is so that they can convert those positions to other discipline.i've seen this happening to at least 2 teams so far. Microsoft Senior Director Salaries | Glassdoor >> Grammar nitpicking is fine when it's accurate.Wow, those sic[s] really are all [sic]s, and you went out of your way to refute them with invalid proofs and an assumed air of infallibility.Obviously you are a manager of HR managers soon to be promoted to GM. Working with high EQ allows you to collaborate better. Senior-level Marketing Executive with experience in the consumer and B2B industry. I heard that promotion budgets are significantly reduced at below 65 level. Over the years, we have acted as a preferred talent acquisition partner to. So most new hires at MS are L63 by default and they obviously don't have to work at it :).I actually find the content of this post to be superficial, fairly naive and not reflective of my experience having moved through the ranks from 59 to >65.I would not give most of this advice to our campus hires as any kind of roadmap. That is, its hard to define, but I know it when I see it. 8,000+ Senior Director Human Resources Jobs in United States - LinkedIn Jobs are leveled, not people - make sure the job you have includes the scope needed for the level you want. If you know higher leveled people in another org, ask them to poke holes in your proposals. Are you sure you know what your boss wants? Everything else is irrelevent or works against your promotion. Your lead. You may be one of those who diligently turn over every single rock to look at problems within the org. What advice do you have to pass on? All these comments apply generally to any matured company and life in general. For others, the picture will not be so clear and they may place more weight on perceptions or a set of isolated incidents. Because when it comes time to roll people out of the team (as teams do from time to time) this "No, never" a marker that is used to help figure out who - at I and II CSP levels - is either on-track or out. And I'm going to tell you right now, I'm 99.9% sure what needs to change is you. I've been struggling with the elusive 59 -> 60 move for quite some time. With wide-eyed wonder he asked WHAT? I said whatever the @#$% your manager most needs you to do!6. Ah, dude, my boss is in the way of my promotion. The general consensus is why get rid of someone who is happy doing their job and can do it better than anyone else. Shock and awe awaits. I've been at Microsoft six years.I've never spent one second honestly thinking about my career or how to get a promotion or anything like that. in my previous post i should have included a link to our internal mentor site for finding a mentor. Director can be just principal in sales or marketing. I also agree with the requests to have a discussion related to 65+.Anyway, I have seen a very healthy discussion going on here, and most of the thoughts I wanted to share have been mentioned. But the clarity I have through the rear view mirror is staggering -- I was defining myself by what a bunch of poorly skilled managers thought, in a company that hadn't moved it's stock price in seven years. I haven't seen one single person getting hired below L63 in my group during last year. I thought what I did was valuable but in the end, it wasn't.The Microsoft up or out policy is the prime directive. Do a brownbag for your VP level group, record it and send out the link to everyone. Much longer if new leadership comes from outside MS. Don't perform flawlessly to the above 70+ pieces of feedback only to see the churn above you. The biggest lesson I learned here was how to work *with* other teams, even when I thought they weren't very good and even when our purposes didn't align. It sounds fishyMy manager was also saying me something along the same lines. Once they successfully cross the chasm theyll start over on the typical S-shaped learning curve at the new level again. I am offered a job at L65 and job offer has a title Director on it! That is why to get to L65 a VP level person must know your work and be able to recall your name without help. In this scenario, the senior director might have more responsibilities and be in charge of a larger part of the organization than a typical director. You are now 20% closer to promotion just by a day of work :). Its nice to see constructive advice and stories from everyone.I'm in the 61 bucket and currently struggling with my team for many months. I'm there. Healthcare is the most common skill found on a senior director resume. You should be able to show the path to a goal, especially to collections of people who do not report to you. Like any organization MS has its own unique culture and cannot possibly be all things for all people. Salesmanship is extremely important. Thanks for keeping this focused. The "Most Likely Range" represents values that exist within the 25th and 75th percentile of all pay data available for this role. i've been hearing this.. you know when you are about to cut a small feature and do balancing in your sprint/milestone essentially this is happening at VP level. That manager was (in my and many others' opinions) an incompetent, non-technical "manager" who was incapable of recognizing people's talent and contributions. Stop fighting which is where mapped. And as my experience shows, many teams do not even staff a senior. This is where I agree with Mini regarding taking MSFT back to the good ol' lean, mean, and efficient company we enjoyed. According to Glassdoor, senior software engineers at Google can earn $172,818 as their average base pay, along with average cash bonuses of $30,921, stock bonuses of $104,769, and some other cash incentives for a total of $201,000. Take responsibility for defining the component in front of you -- is it really the right thing for the product/team? Losing focus of your target next career level will leave you with nothing but regret and wasted time, sometimes years. What to do?The remaining is either a) absorb into other org (say A)b) if A doesn't need testers, then VP will instruct them to find another position in 6 weeks. Don't be the roadblock. You can switch jobs internally and get leveled up (typically 6-12 months after) - but make sure you have the conversation with the manager as to what is the expected level and what is the cap. A Senior Director gets a basic salary package of $190,000, which gets as high . microsoft senior program manager salary redmond We had a strategic plan for getting me the visibility with the higher-ups that I needed.My promotion to Level 65 during the last annual review period was clearly the hardest. They make decisions that affect both their department and the company, making their role crucial in the pursuit of the company's goals. Copyright 2008-2023, Glassdoor, Inc. "Glassdoor" and logo are registered trademarks of Glassdoor, Inc. Even with all good intentions, they can even be ineffective mentors (although I still highly recommend the mentoring program, as long as you change your mentor every year). If you have a good manager he/she will ensure the relevant peers know all about it. "There is no greater de-motivator than a reward system that is perceived to be unfair. For technical and management track, the job level start from 57 and continues till 80. If youve capped out at Level 62 then MS is probably not a great fit for you. You go along with a good boss/employee relationship then all of a sudden, it's like you killed his first born. > Lots of very true points. the answer is simple - take on more. Why does the company reward and keep these numbskull managers that hold people back? I am not saying the manager is trying to sabotage, but when push comes to shove will you get the impactful project. Keep my word. It's just that the scope is different. But that doesn't really help you compete when you don't know what everyone else is doing, particularily if you think you're doing well.Further, it's hard to get specific advice on how to get promoted, due to said black wall. I influenced the features, I lended my expertise on them, and I learned about the customer - all this way before the spec'ing phase. Mini could you please confirm or deny this. I came in at L61 2+ years ago. Got lucky on that one!!!! I would get vague directives like you need to be the thought leader or you need to improve your system knowledge. That figures. If you want the longest Microsoft career possible, why advance any faster than you have to. If you find a boss who likes the kind of work you can do, follow him/her wherever they go. No one wants an employee who is staying for the money -- and you don't want to be that employee, either. They are trying to get attention from upper levels more harder then you. for 63 promo within a more clear timeline. This number represents the median, which is the midpoint of the ranges from our proprietary Total Pay Estimate model and based on salaries collected from our users. I'm at 62, have been for lo, these many years. Do a search for people in those groups in NYC area and check their status to see who is hiring. Well, what about everyone else? Thus promotions are easy to L62 - if you don't make 62 quickly, there is something wrong. Bottom line: Dont be shy of asking for promotions during internal transfers. When you take on the toughest problems that risk the product and make that problem go away, they are happy. I got involved in features up front, by spending time getting to know the PM team. Dont compete with them. Eventually, their team will remove itself from his control through internal transfers to teams with better managers, and the asshole ends up getting canned in a re-org if he doesn't see the writing on the wall and use his Apple resume entry to jump to some other company.The fact that you praise someone for "junk yard dog mode" shows me that Microsoft has a fundamentally broken corporate culture, and that you are part of the problem.-jcr, Think of the guy in the other companyI don't like where this is goingThat is the guy to beat.No, No, NO!Think of the customer, not the competition! Great post! Both job switches came from conversations I had with former co-workers or former directors. BG for a big PG in a medium/large sub)L63 = director, then onwards to GM etc62->63 is a tough jump where you need to take ownership for a business segmentYou can go up to L60 pretty easily by nailing commitments year on year and showing you can thrive on increased responsibility, after that it gets harder and you need to proactively lead and drive results that impact the wider business significantly.If you're in sales, it's pretty much all about the total quota you influenceIn my experience, my advice is:- network and help make other groups successful (ideally in a win/win context)- be proactive, propose and grab new challenges and be successful with them- deliver against the CSP's/commitments for the next level up, when you have mastered the current level- make your boss look good, and make his/her boss look good. If they see flaws you have flaws. If you think you will follow the management career path then get in such role as early as possible. This means there are 24 distinct job levels at Microsoft. I basically just hoped that hard work would get me ahead. One question a manager will think about before promoting you is how many times he had to clean up after you pissed off someone else - especially if it's someone on another team. you want to complete A and A requires 10 devs. I'm sure others here will clarify.And apparently we will all know more in January. My likely response would be "congratulations! Woow. Title doesn't matter, that's a job description. No one is born an experienced mgr and even the most experienced mgrs are not perfect. It's hard for L63. Let's apply that stick to cronyism and punishment based management practicies. Its a bit like the famous phrase about the definition of obscenity. I'm not even thinking about level 63 at this point. similar to maybe how EY says senior manager is Director (pwc, kpmg) equivalent. If you can make the argument about the job - and you're in a position of strength, obviously harder now than in years past, you can make the case. Microsoft senior leadership team under Satya Nadella Tech Here are the most important execs at Microsoft under Satya Nadella Jordan Novet @jordannovet Key Points Microsoft's executive team. This is an opportunity to really do great work and innovate - learn to do your best work in the face of adversity and limited budgets and you will most likely to do well.
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